Listen to the full episode, here.
John Norris (00:31):
Well, hello again, everybody. This is John Norris at Trading Perspectives. As always, we have a good friend, Sam Clements. Sam, say hello. Hey
Sam Clement (00:36):
John, how are you doing?
John Norris (00:37):
Sam, I’m doing fantastically and I hope you are.
Sam Clement (00:39):
I am doing great.
John Norris (00:40):
I think we’re both doing great because neither one of us are in the market to buy a brand new home, right?
Sam Clement (00:46):
Maybe me a little bit, but
John Norris (00:48):
Not dying. Well, me too. I mean, I don’t have to. You don’t have to.
Sam Clement (00:52):
Could be nice.
John Norris (00:53):
The right house fell on your head sort of like Wizard of Oz sort of type thing. Maybe that’d be one thing. But right now when you take a look and you ask a lot of Americans what the single biggest problem is in the country, you’re getting a lot of different answers. Some of them are going to be political, some of them are going to be about the president, some of them just going to be about politics in general. But if you were to take sort of a poll of folks, I think what you would find is housing affordability or lack thereof is one of the biggest problems facing consumers and particularly younger consumers. So Sam, I’m going to ask you, what are people in your generation saying? What are they talking about? Tell me what you’re thinking and tell me what younger people are thinking about this topic, housing affordability or lack thereof.
Sam Clement (01:39):
Well, I think you have a couple different groups that are making up the disgruntled consumers in the market.
And the first is those about to graduate college, maybe just graduated, but aren’t at the point to buying a house yet. And they see just runaway home prices and
Sam Clement (01:52):
I feel like they can never afford it. Other people are those that did get in at the right time, the two, 3% mortgage rates and feel stuck in it.
John Norris (02:01):
I feel like you’re talking in a mirror right now.
Sam Clement (02:03):
I am talking in a mirror. I absolutely feel stuck. And then you have those that are really needing to get a bigger house, but they know the payment’s literally tripling, quadrupling. And then those that are looking to downsize and they say, “Well, if I downsize and get half the house with a new mortgage, it’s going to be the same payment.”
John Norris (02:22):
Well, it seems like you’re talking straight to me in the average.
Sam Clement (02:28):
And that makes up a lot of America,
John Norris (02:29):
Right? It does. Huge. Well, almost all of them. Yeah.
Sam Clement (02:33):
And then because renters aren’t immune to it either because rental rates go up obviously if home prices are going up. And so when you throw all those groups of people together, that tends to make up a large chunk of the country.
John Norris (02:47):
And I’m going to tell you, there’s something that the National Association of Realtor puts out. It’s called the Housing Affordability Index. Listen, the number’s going to be Greek. Just trust me. High is bad, low is good in terms of… Actually, no. Housing affordability, the other way around on this one. Low is bad, high is good. So the higher the number, the better the overall level of affordability, the lower the number, the worse off for the consumer. Fair enough? Yep. All right. Overall, right now at the end of the first quarter of 2026, the National Association of Realtors, NAR is saying the housing affordability composite index was at 116.1. What does that mean to you? Nothing. How about if I were to tell you the 40-year average is 136.82?
Sam Clement (03:35):
Doesn’t sound fantastic.
John Norris (03:37):
No, it sounds like if the 40-year average is 137 and we’re at 116, then since higher is better, hey, housing affordability is not where we would want. It’s below the 40-year average. Now consider this for housing affordability for first-time home buyers. I want that group that you were talking about. 40-year average, 88 where it was at the end of the first quarter, 77.
Sam Clement (04:03):
I would’ve guessed it was even wider.
John Norris (04:06):
I would’ve thought it would’ve been too. I would’ve though that number was lower than 77. In fact, I don’t see how it was because median home prices hit an all time high the first quarter and mortgage rates were higher than they were. Somehow the NAR is saying that housing affordability’s going up. Maybe they’re trying to, I don’t know, talk their book. I have no clue. Even so both the composite as well as the sub-component for first-time home buyers are telling us that housing affordability is below median on the 40-year average, probably in the fourth quartile. And that means, hey, that’s a real issue. So let’s think about this one. I did some math. No one’s ever going to accuse me of not having done the math on the Housing Affordability Podcast in July. Hopefully this comes out in July 2026 and Sam, I picked on a neighborhood here in town called Homewood, Alabama.
(04:58):
South of town, a nice neighborhood, median home price at the end of, I think it was the first quarter of this year or June of 2026. Actually, that’s the second quarter, isn’t it? The median home price for that month, according to Zillow. So take that with a grain of salt. It’s like quoting Wikipedia thinking so many ways. Zillow says the median home price in Homewood, Alabama, and I guess that’s on both sides of 65. And if you’re from Birmingham, what I’m talking about. Median home price, $547,650. Fair enough?
Sam Clement (05:32):
Probably when you average the –
John Norris (05:34):
Probably average it out.
Sam Clement (05:35):
Yeah.
John Norris (05:37):
I would’ve thought it’d been closer to 650. Yeah.
Sam Clement (05:40):
I think the…
John Norris (05:41):
Yeah. If you go into Edgewood, get into Highway. If you were to put 80% down, assuming no points, no origination fees and all that stuff, that means you would’ve taken out a mortgage of 438,120 bucks. 20%
Sam Clement (05:55):
Down.
John Norris (05:56):
Yeah, 20%. Yeah. That’s right. Thank you for doing the math. And so you put 20% down, that’s what your mortgage would be. $438,000 and somewhat. According to Fannie Mae, most recent 30-year mortgage rates conforming all that stuff, 657, about like that. That’s a contract price, which means that your monthly mortgage according to the MP function on my Bloomberg would’ve been $2,789 per month. What do you think about
Sam Clement (06:27):
That? It’s a lot more expensive and then you have other things to tack onto
John Norris (06:32):
It as well. Yeah, that’s just the mortgage. That’s just what you got paid the bank back. Okay. Now that’s June of 2026. Now Zillow has a fun little chart and I went back five years. June of 2021, median home price in Homewood, $475,295. You put 20% down and you mortgage 80% of it. That works out to be $380,236 you’re going to mortgage. However, the interest rate back then, my friend, five years ago, 3.2 nationwide. That means that your monthly nut for your mortgage was $1,644. So over that five year, just for the median home price, 20% down, average 30 year across the country, all this stuff, just median, all that, just straight down the middle. The growth in the monthly number is in absolute turns, $1,145 per month. That’s close to a 70% increase. Annualize that bad boy works out to be about 11.2%. Meanwhile, inflation’s growing at a little over 4%.
(07:39):
That’s what the problem is. It’s housing affordability. The housing prices, believe it or not, were only up about 2.87% when annualized over those five years. Yeah, that’s not fun. That’s a lot of money we’re talking about. A lot of money. You got to have a nicer paycheck in Birmingham for that. But it’s that increase in the mortgage rates that have really taken a sky
Sam Clement (07:59):
High. And the other part to this math is not just if you bought a house in 2021, but if you had bought a house anytime before and refinanced it there. So this is not this small niche of buyers that bought them when rates hit two and a three quarters or three and a quarter. It’s anybody
John Norris (08:18):
Beforehand. It’s someone that has a 4% mortgage. Someone that usually has a four and a half percent mortgage. They didn’t get into the refinancing for whatever reason. They’re stuck really in a lot of ways. Now this is a lot of numbers. Obviously throwing a lot of numbers at you today, Sam, and apologize. I went and I did the average on all this stuff. Your monthly mortgage, $2,789. You annualize that out and then divide by 52. Fair enough? Kind of your weekly average, $643.71. That’s in 2026. In 2021, $379.47. All right so what? Right? Yeah. According to the BLS, I’m pulling out all the numbers. I’m nerd now. This is date repellent. Just absolutely just make sure I’m as unattractive to anyone as possible. I’m happily married. Babe, I don’t mean anything by that. Weekly earnings according to BLS first quarter of this year, $1,233. Five years ago, $984.
(09:22):
As such, same according to the heverage weekly for your mortgage this year compared to the amount of money that you’re bringing in, your mortgage makes up 52.2% of usual weekly earnings. In 2021, 38.6%.
Sam Clement (09:41):
That’s the numbers that to me make it more drastic than the example of $1,000 because not to be jaded, but if –
John Norris (09:52):
I mean a guy in your situation, $1,000 here. I love an extra thousand a lot.
Sam Clement (09:57):
I’m just saying as a whole, to a lot of people when you just say it’s $1,000 more, it’s not going to sound as significant until
John Norris (10:06):
You start putting it. It’s like 14% more.
Sam Clement (10:08):
Yeah.
John Norris (10:09):
That’s a lot.
Sam Clement (10:10):
Yeah.
John Norris (10:11):
That’s a percent of your income. I mean, back in 2021 for the average person, 39% of your income, now 52% of it.
Sam Clement (10:18):
Dude,
John Norris (10:20):
That’s not even good. That’s not even including your taxes. Which leaves you what to live on?
Sam Clement (10:25):
Taxes, general home repairs and fixes.
John Norris (10:28):
what it means you’re eating?
Sam Clement (10:31):
Beans and rice and rice and beans, as Dave Ramsey would say.
John Norris (10:35):
You might be able to afford a little ramen. Somebody that cut up some gualty turkey franks and they put it in your ramen. So I would say, Sam, as much as we want to complain about everything, really the biggest problem that we have right now with housing prices in Atlanta, housing affordability or lack thereof is really mortgage rates. Housing prices, yeah, they’ve gone up. But take a look at a hot area of the Birmingham metropolitan area like Homewood and yeah, they’ve gone up. I threw away the math right there. They’re up, let’s say 15% over the last five years. A little bit under 3% went annualized. You can do that. I mean, it’s actually kind of in keeping with inflation.
Sam Clement (11:18):
Yeah, as real estate typically does
John Norris (11:20):
Overload. Yeah, typically does. However, most recently in Washington, what is it? The 21st Century Road to Housing Act came out. I think Trump didn’t sign it, didn’t veto it. And so it became law bipartisan. Everyone’s patting themselves on the back. I Googled it and the AI search on Google came up with key provisions for the legislation to include, and Sam, I’m going to read this. This is what AI has to say. Investor restrictions prohibits large institutional investors, those controlling 350 more single family homes for purchasing single family homes, though exceptions exist for built to rent and renovate to rent programs, which are pretty much going to be all of them. Regulatory streaming reduces costs and lengthy NEPA, National Environmental Protection or Policy Act, compliance burdens for HUD funded housing developments. Grants and incentives authorizes competitive planning grants innovation to fund ya, ya, ya. And then alternative designs promotes the development of single stair multifamily homes up to six stories and prefabricated modular housing.
(12:24):
I think everyone in Washington is going to give themselves a pat on the back for this. Hey, look at what we’ve done. Is it going to do anything?
Sam Clement (12:32):
Probably not enough. I mean, unless they also made it law that mortgage rates have to cap out at 4% and
John Norris (12:40):
Maybe – Well, what happens when you put the ceiling below the market equilibrium or the clearing price.
Sam Clement (12:47):
Same thing that always happens.
John Norris (12:48):
Yeah. Shortage of housing. So if we’re sitting around thinking, okay, housing affordability, we’ve got mortgage rates. Okay, that’s it. And obviously the only other thing that can really truly drive down prices is a surge of supply. A surge of supply. And so when you’re thinking about this, okay, now these big bad investors can’t buy 350,000. I’m sure no one’s ever thought, okay, well, we’ll just create a new LLC and you’re the new general partner. Assuming that’s not going to happen. Does this drastically increase the supply of housing in the United States?
Sam Clement (13:31):
No. And that’s the crux of the issue is to me, it’s a really difficult thing to change to manage the incentives of private investors or companies to just build more houses.
John Norris (13:48):
If long-term mortgage rates aren’t going to change, the only thing that’s going to increase housing affordability is if housing prices go down. That’s it. And so these institutional home buyers aren’t going to be selling their homes when they’re going down in price. They can hold onto it, inventory it and wait for the housing price to come back up. So that’s not going to do anything. I hate to say it guys, and I’m not trying to be too political here, but this is bipartisan legislation. So hopefully I’m not offending anyone. I don’t see how this really dramatically increases the supply of housing out there in the United States at all.
Sam Clement (14:20):
I agree.
John Norris (14:21):
And so it’d be great to get some regulatory streamlining and, “Oh, grants and incentives. I won’t qualify for anything.” Alternative designs. I don’t even know what that means. So when I take a look at everything, I’m going, “Okay, politicians are there. We’re going to pat themselves on the back, but it’s not going to induce all of our friends in the home building industry to go out there and build a whole bunch of new homes when the only way that’s going to increase housing affordability is to see home prices go down.” And that’s not a big incentive for home builders.
Sam Clement (14:50):
And part of the issue with this too is that real estate in general is so much more than a national thing.
John Norris (14:56):
Yes.
Sam Clement (14:56):
It is a –
John Norris (14:57):
Local thing.
Sam Clement (14:58):
It’s a regional, then a state and definitely a local thing.
Sam Clement (15:02):
Mean, you see city councils or whoever’s in power in some cities that really know what they’re doing and how to incentivize people to come there and people to build homes can be successful almost indifferent with what the mortgage rates are and vice versa. And you can really clog up the process of building homes as well. So that’s to me is what’s the bigger issue is how do you incentivize businesses to come and incentivize people to come and incentivize which incentivizes builders to come build houses?
John Norris (15:32):
Well, I mean, and speaking of builders to come build houses, I don’t think they’re putting up a whole bunch of entry level homes right now.
Sam Clement (15:40):
No. And the average square footage of new homes that are being built has skyrocketed. And so you don’t have those, you mentioned Homewood where the original, I say original, but the old houses now that are in Homewood are those classic three twos.
John Norris (15:58):
Yeah. Those old craftsman homes are on Broadway.
Sam Clement (16:01):
1600 square feet.
John Norris (16:02):
Are people undoubtedly going to start tearing those things down, putting up new ones?
Sam Clement (16:05):
Yes. And anything that is being bought and torn down or a new house being built or even just renovated is becoming a four plus, five plus bedroom house. You’re
John Norris (16:18):
Right. I hope you like your neighbors.
Sam Clement (16:19):
These location, location, location that has always been the mantra is kind of changed when it’s becoming so desirable that all that is being built is those higher end houses. And the other problem with it is, and I’ve seen this in Homewood to keep using the example is you have two groups of people bidding on the same house. You have somebody who is for those entry level, not the nicest, but you want to buy a house kind of thing. Some people are buying that to get into a house. Other people are buying that to tear it down and build a two million, three, $5 million house.
Sam Clement (16:51):
And so the latter of those two doesn’t care if they overpay a little where the first does. And so you have these mismatched offers and it’s really clogging up that entry level housing market
John Norris (17:03):
In a lot of areas. Edgewood is going through now or has been going, it’s a better way of putting it, what that flat section of Crestline did probably about a decade, maybe 15 years ago. Exact same thing going on right there. But you’re absolutely right when you say the old real estate’s mantra is location, location, location. Because economic conditions and different zip codes and different zoning laws and all that stuff will make a big difference in home prices. For instance, Homewood, Alabama, Mount Brook, Alabama, Vestavia Hills, Alabama, Hoover, Alabama have historically been sort of the big, bigger sort of south of town, south of the mountain, over the mountain sort of suburbs.
(17:44):
They’re not making much more property in those areas. Although Hoover’s quite buying up stuff and Vestavia kind of has too. Homewood hadn’t grown in size since I was a kid. Mountain Brook hadn’t really grown in size since I was a kid. So you are constrained by how many housing units you’re going to have in there, how many people that can really live in that area. Even so the metropolitan area has grown. So more people are trying to move into these areas that are incorporated, have their own boards of education, own fire and police, all these things, nice places to live. And so you have greater demand for these same sort of small pockets. And that’s why you’re seeing places like Homewood, places like Mountain Brook, Vistavia, Hoover. And I’m sorry if you’re listening elsewhere. You can think of the Tony sections of wherever you’re living and it’s the same thing there.
(18:28):
I guarantee you. Those places are going to be seen. I don’t see any increase in housing affordability there unless something bad happens to the economy. However, I can go to a lot of other sections of this metropolitan area and buy any house I want.
(18:46):
Not to bespirch certain areas. You go out there and buy close to some of the closed metal factories out in Tarrant. I can get a pretty cheap house. I can get a pretty cheap house over there in sections of Ensley, all these other things. Nothing against those areas, but you can get pretty cheap houses over there. So it’s location, location, location. And you’re seeing this across the entire country. You have more and more people wanting to live into a smaller section of town, the same small sections of town. Meanwhile, you got these old fogies at their kids out of the local school systems that just won’t move.
Sam Clement (19:20):
Back to the original part of the disgruntled people is maybe they would want to.
John Norris (19:26):
I’m a perfect example of that. We live in a section of town called Mountain Brook. I mean, anyone that wants to look it up can find that out. What it used to be is people would grow up Mountain Brook and then their kids would get out of the school system and then they’d move. Move to Jefferson County, move to Forest Park, move to the Redmont section of Birmingham, some such place. Now a lot of people have these 3% mortgages. Some even have been in the twos might have not a ton on their note, but might have a couple hundred thousand dollars on that. I know that’s a lot of money, but I mean, if it’s not a fortune, a couple hundred thousand on there. Well, now in order to downsize, guess what? I can do a lateral move into Forest Park and it’s going to cost me more money in order to move there.
(20:12):
So I’m not going to do it. So
Sam Clement (20:12):
Even if you have more space than you need.
John Norris (20:14):
Yeah. Beth is always wanting… She loves looking at homes. It just causes me great anxiety. She loves looking at homes. And so when that happens, she’s always looking at stuff. I’m going, “Babe, what are you talking about? That’s going to cost us more money. I don’t see how.” I’m like, “It’s going to cost us more money.” So there are plenty of folks like myself and on my street. On my street, we’ve got kindergartners and people like me. There are very few folks in between and that’s what’s moving in. And I know people would love for us to all move out. So another couple questions here. And there’s something I’ve been thinking about. Last year for the Charlotte Business Journal, I wrote a piece on how immigration levels and how we had so much immigration was artificially inflating. Well, not artificially, it was just inflating overall cost of housing.
(21:07):
I got a lot of blow back from people that folks in our marketing department didn’t tell me about at the time, but actually told me about it. Not nasty grams. We were just people disagreeing with what I had to say about immigration impacting housing prices. And I couldn’t say, that seems to me just such a duh sort of statement. It’s like, no, I don’t think illegal immigrants or undocumented workers, whatever we’re calling them these days, I don’t think they’re coming in and buying homes on Cherokee Road or Shaquille Road or in Charlotte and on Sharon. We’re moving it over by the Belle Meade Country Club. I don’t think that’s happened. However, there’s more people demanding housing units. Just throw it onto one big pot and just… All right, there you
Sam Clement (21:49):
Go. I mean, you retracted, but said artificially. And it’s like the most natural way is it’s supply and demand, right? Yes. And it’d be the same thing if you waved a magic wand and change the birth rate from whatever it is, you doubled the birth rate
Sam Clement (22:04):
Here in the US. At some point that would cause a massive strain on housing. So it’s not about individuals or if there’s more demand for homes –
John Norris (22:13):
Housing. Housing.
Sam Clement (22:14):
And supply doesn’t go up at an equal rate, you are going to have upward pressure on prices.
John Norris (22:21):
So let me pause it or query this one too, I think. Is that right? I don’t know. And let me ask you this. That’s better way of putting it. If we have another couple of years, like what the president or the administration has said has happened with illegal immigration over the last 12 months in such way, borders closed, all that stuff. But let’s say they’re accurate. I don’t have the capability of testing. Finding out the truth. But let’s say that’s accurate and immigration remains undocumented work that’s coming in, illegal immigration remains depressed. Fewer people coming in than had been over the previous eight to 10 years, what have you, whatever timeframe you want to use. If we don’t have that, don’t you think that would ultimately have some downward presure on overall rents and housing prices?
Sam Clement (23:11):
Yeah. It’s kind of back to the inflation thing. It would at least lower the rate of change on it at a bare minimum.
John Norris (23:19):
I agree. I don’t see anyone giving any blow back on that, but they did. Which seems crazy to me. But in any event… All right. I’m just going to leave it at that. And one last question, Sam, make sure we got all five key points in here. What impact will the lack of housing affordability have on longer term wealth creation, particularly people your generation and younger?
Sam Clement (23:45):
I think it will have a significant impact down the road because to me, the benefit of housing, the biggest benefit of housing to long-term wealth creation is the forced savings Aspect
Sam Clement (23:57):
Of it. I mean, whether you’re in the right area, you do the math and how some houses have compound over the last 30 years and it sounds unbelievable and you do the math to it, it’ll be like three, 4%. It’s the forced savings of if you buy a house for 300,000 and you over 30 years pay that off, well then you have at least a $300,000 asset assuming no apreciation. So it’s that forced savings of it that a mortgage causes where yes, arguably if you rent the whole time and you invest the down payment that you would have paid to buy a house and maybe save a little money here and there and invest it, I think you could easily be better off in some cases. People aren’t doing that
John Norris (24:44):
All the time. But also if you just do it the way it’s supposed to do, let’s say you move into a house and you save and you save and you pay the bank off and it’s really just paying your own. It’s a forced savings. You also will get more than likely, you’ll get some home appreciation in that. And so you add it all up and it’s a nice thing. I mean, for instance, like my house, we bought our house in 2006. I mean, wasn’t quite at the top. Pretty close. Not far off. Pretty close. So we have not seen, since 2006, we have seen some nice appreciation in our home, but not dramatic. It’s pretty much kept in line over that 20 year period with the overall rate of inflation. But that’s worked out to be a nice amount of money. I mean, don’t get me wrong.
(25:35):
I’m not complaining about it. And that’s mine. That equity, right? That’s equity. I can borrow against that. I can go monetize that if I want to go do that. I can sell my house and pocket that money. That’s money that’s mine. And if you don’t get into a home because you can’t afford to get into a home, the longer that you can’t get into the home, the more you postpone this wealth creation effect. And so the longer this goes on, the bigger the problem’s going to be for the younger generations who can’t get in there, understand why they’re upset, understand why they want something to happen. I don’t think the most recent legislation’s going to… It’s not going to not have an invoice. It’s just not going to be much. It’d be marginal. I don’t know how we incent builders to put up more stuff.
(26:21):
I mean, I don’t see how we accept lower profit margins to get all these home builders to charge less. I think one thing that would be nice would be they got to pay these people skilled craftsmen a lot of money. And a lot of these materials come from overseas and there’s tariffs on these things right now. So incidentally, strangely enough, a lot of the stuff that goes into making a house expensive. And
Sam Clement (26:51):
At some point if you – I think you get what I’m saying. Yeah. Some areas I think are just unfixable. And I hate to say it. If it’s a finite amount of houses in the most desirable area, that’s –
John Norris (27:03):
Yeah, that’s tough. That’s tough stuff. Yeah. There just aren’t going to be a lot more homes coming up in Mount Brook and Homewood. Vestavia. Yep. Yeah. There aren’t Myers Park, Bell Meat. It’s not going to happen. So all told, Sam, I think if I’m reading between the lines here, trying to interpret what you’re saying, there’s no short term fix for this.
Sam Clement (27:24):
No, there’s definitely
John Norris (27:26):
Not. I mean, it’s either got to be a massive increase in supply or a significant reduction in interest rates.
Sam Clement (27:32):
Yep.
John Norris (27:33):
And neither one of those two things should happen by the end of the year.
Sam Clement (27:36):
Definitely not.
John Norris (27:37):
All right. Well, guys, thank you all so much for listening. We always love to hear from you. Also, if you have any comments or questions, please, by all means, let us know. You can always reach us by dropping us a line at , where you can leave us a review on the podcast outlet of your choice. Of course, if you’re interested in hearing more, reading more of what we got to say or how we think, you can always go to oakworth.com, O-A-K-W-O-R-T-H.com. Take a look underneath the thought leadership tab and find access to all kinds of exciting information, including links to previous Trade Perspectives episodes, as well as links to previous editions of our newsletter/blog common sense, as well as other analysis by the investment committee and thought leadership team, as well as everything that Mac Frazier and the advisory services team puts out there as well.
(28:24):
It’s all good stuff. Hope you can take a look at it. All right, Sam, anything else today on this exciting topic?
Sam Clement (28:29):
That’s all I’ve got.
John Norris (28:30):
That’s all I’ve got today too. Y’all take care. This podcast is for informational purposes only and does not constitute investment, legal or tax advice. The views expressed are those of the speakers as of the date of the recording and are subject to change. Nothing discussed should be considered a recommendation to buy or sell any security or investment strategy. All investments involve risk, including the possible loss of principle and past performance is never indicative of future results. This podcast may include forward-looking statements based on current expectations that may not be realized. Any actions taken based on this information are at your own risk and you should consult your own financial, legal or tax advisors before making any investment decisions. Advisory services, including investment management and financial planning, are offered through Oakworth Asset Management, an SEC registered investment advisor. Oakworth Asset Management is owned by Oakworth Capital Bank, member FDIC.
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